(2) In practice, it's hard to know what an LLM has memorized, when it's using random heuristics, what it's truly grokked, or what it was in the process of grokking when training stopped
This makes using & studying LLMs tricky!
Sorry, but nobody said this would be easy!
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
I could go on indefinitely here, but instead, I'll leave you with a few concluding thoughts:
(1) To steel-man the paper, I'll say this:
That a model can predict the next token in a sequence does NOT imply that it has a robust world model. That much is true.
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
Most compelling to me: "world models" from non-language problem spaces.
Here's an example where mechanistic interpretability analysis of a Protein Language Model helped biologists identify a new protein motif
x.com/james_y_zou...
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
Also omitted is this paper showing how Llama-2-70B represents space and time more consistently as you get deeper into the layers.
(If you're noticing that a lot of this work is 2-3 years old, that's because most of the field has moved past this debate!)
x.com/wesg52/stat...
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
Not mentioned in the paper is this fascinating work from Owain & team which shows that ...
Models fine-tuned on input/output pairs from an unknown function CAN express the function *in closed form*
Seems pretty relevant!
x.com/OwainEvans_...
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
And besides, it's not like Isaac Newton jumped straight from raw sensory data to a theory of gravity
"Principia" came ~15 years after his work on Calculus and required intensive symbolic reasoning
Relatedly... LLMs are now world-class coders!
x.com/gdb/status/...
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
One thing you might try, if you really wanted to make this work, is simply ... training longer.
After all, the original Grokking paper showed generalization a full 3 OOMs after memorization.
Neural Networks are weird!
x.com/awnihannun/...
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
For Othello, the dataset is only 7.7M tokens!
For comparison, the 2022 (!!) work showing that models trained on Othello move sequences DO learn board state "world models" used "a synthetic dataset with 20 million games" – ~50X more data!
x.com/ke_li_2021/...
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
Beyond that, the models & datasets they use are super small!
For orbital mechanics, they used a 109M param Transformer and 2B tokens – roughly 1 / 10,000th the size of current frontier models & datasets. 🤔
These are not really "foundation models" at all! 🚨
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
The critical mistake is simple:
You can't generalize from a few failed experiments to the conclusion that something is impossible
Specifically, that "these toy models didn't generalize in the way we hypothesized" does not imply "no world models" in general
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
The trouble is: what do you do when your first experiments fail?
At a company pushing the AI capabilities frontier, you would try, try again!
In this case, the authors declare victory & invoke Isaac Newton to promote their "no world models" world model
x.com/keyonV/stat...
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
First, they train small models to predict eg- planetary orbits & Othello move sequences
Then, they fine-tune those models on related tasks – predicting gravitational forces & board states – and look for evidence of fast generalization
They call this the "inductive bias probe"
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
Let's start with their big idea:
IF foundation models learn "world models" representing the underlying process that generates the training data...
Then they should be able to re-use those world models to make related predictions
Cool idea, imho, but ... how to test it?
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
Fwiw, I don't enjoy being this guy, but when so many people are taking false comfort in shoddy AI denialism... somebody's got to do it
Plus, because the headline animation is so intuitively appealing, I was almost taken in by it myself!
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
You keep sharing this paper, but... I do not think it means what you think it means
In this short 🧵:
1) what the authors actually did, and why "no world models" simply does not follow
2) a few highlights from the literature on AI world models
x.com/keyonV/stat...
17.07.2025 18:39 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
(10) Arguments for export controls are now explicitly focused on allowing the US to run more "AI workers" than China
OpenAI Deep Research tracks how this evolved from the original national security concerns here: chatgpt.com/share/681a7...
x.com/ohlennart/s...
06.05.2025 20:37 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 0 📌 0
(9) @Amazon blocks Operator, which I found surprising. This led me to try their shopping assistant Opus, which does work well, though tbh the Amazon shopping experience is so good – at least for routine things – that it's really hard to beat
www.perplexity.ai/search/does...
06.05.2025 20:37 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
(8) Relatedly, this Personal MCP concept is super interesting to me
I can see MCP as a standard for all sorts of Personal AIs that support all sorts of access & configurations internally, & help us engage the increasingly noisy world on our own terms
x.com/betterhn20/...
06.05.2025 20:37 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
(7) You could try to place blame on the AI that actually called the tool and directly caused some harm.
But … that makes the Operator model challenging. The actual contact-with-the-world agent is likely going to be taking remote direction
See also: Gemini Robotics 🤖 ☁️
06.05.2025 20:37 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
(6) Pietro's planning MCP is open source, but with dreams of MCP-as-a-service in the air, many MCPs will be closed, and will be consulted more like oracles for whatever they do.
How does one think about agency in that case? Or liability?
x.com/jeff_weinst...
06.05.2025 20:37 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
(5) That said, since you can call an LLM from anywhere, it can be hard to draw a box around an AI agent
For example, Augment's open-source coding Agent uses @skirano's "sequential thinking" MCP
Does that make Pietro's MCP part of the agent?
x.com/augmentcode...
06.05.2025 20:37 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
(4) I like this "2 kinds of agents" model. Factored cognition has both reliability & safety benefits.
Task-specific agents with defined action space, curated context, & dedicated monitoring, all supporting human/AI agents working at a higher level 👍
x.com/hwchase17/s...
06.05.2025 20:37 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
(3) The Operator model is functionally competent but not that smart, doesn't handle long context, can't use tools, & cannot "write as me" at all
It can, however, consult my @withdelphi AI clone & @Calendly via the browser
When it can call higher intelligences & tools ... 👀
06.05.2025 20:37 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
(2) @OpenAI Operator is good now!
Tell it that you don't want it to confirm every step. It still will, in some cases for the better.
It can do ~100-action sequences; it tries new strategies rather than getting stuck.
Here it uses @waymark – sadly no HTML5 canvas support! 😦
06.05.2025 20:37 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
10 random thoughts on AI Agents, inspired by LLM product response times, which with inference time scaling are long enough for my mind to wander 🧵
# 1 – LLMs remain weird - new Gemini 2.5 Pro still just 1 for 3 on this task, with catastrophic failures
x.com/labenz/stat...
06.05.2025 20:36 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0
"It's important to know that Elon's right.
OpenAI is attempting the second-biggest theft in human history.
The amicus brief is completely correct. The terms they've suggested are completely unacceptable."
@TheZvi on the @elonmusk vs @OpenAI lawsuit
28.04.2025 19:17 — 👍 1 🔁 0 💬 0 📌 0
"o3 is misaligned. It lies to the user & defends it onto death. It's significantly worse than o1
and GPT-4.1 seems less aligned than GPT-4o
The more RL you apply, the more misaligned they get, & we don't seem to be trying that hard"
@TheZvi on why his p(doom) is up to 70%
25.04.2025 17:18 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 0 📌 0
There's no truly safe option, but Jeremie & Edouard have published a sobering report outlining what it would really take to secure an "AI Manhattan Project"
Is it a blueprint for victory or a warning against such projects? Listen & decide for yourself!
x.com/harris_edou...
24.04.2025 16:55 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 0 📌 0
On the other hand, China "hold[s] our infrastructure at risk. One Taiwan invasion scenario, if things are not going as well as they hope ... just turn off all of our grids. Turn out the lights and let the chaos reign. Why wouldn't they do that?"
Doesn't sound good either!
24.04.2025 16:54 — 👍 0 🔁 0 💬 1 📌 0