Thank you both!
I see through your profile dice that you are a man of culture!
Heroquest was the game that got me addicted to Dungeon Crawling(, so the idea was to combine HQ and X-COM in the same game.

(Apocalypse is because it was the first X-COM I played).

knight_tactics.pptx Knight Tactics From medieval manuscripts to the gameplay mechanics of

Link to the presentation :
docs.google.com/presentation...
and additional links:
docs.google.com/document/d/1...

Zodiac Legion on Steam Zodiac Legion is a turn-based tactical RPG where you take command of an arcane chivalric order. Expand your potential in a world of reawakening magic. Develop your stronghold, research astral powers, ...

Some links to wrap it up:
Our game page:
store.steampowered.com/app/812910/Z...
Norwich HEMA Society:
youtube.com/@norwich_hem...
Tod’s Workshop(arrow vs plate):
youtube.com/watch?v=DBxd...
Wiktenauer(fencing treatises):
wiktenauer.com
Daniel Jaquet's armour research:
www.djaquet.info

Thank you for hosting this week's #TurnBasedThursday, @ninedotsstudio.bsky.social !
This week's update of Zodiac Legion is a deep dive into the research and development process of our combat system, especially when it comes to doing armor justice:
bsky.app/profile/gald...

But we can fill the gaps with magic, or choose what we want to represent!

Now let's address the part about the limits of our sources:
We have very little documentation about formation combat in armor:
- Chroniclers who wrote about battles didn't see them
- Knights who were into writing typically wrote about chivarly rather than fighting.

As for the attrition/exhaustion factor, that's why we decided to represent our dungeons as a single protracted battle, instead of a series of micro engagements.

●spending time resting allows other enemies to ready themselves
●Enemies will also engage the player on their own

As for weapon variety, I said one hander sucked against plate armor, BUT they allow you to carry a big shield, which makes protecting these vulnerable characters, like archers or mages much easier!

You don't always need to penetrate armor to kill the knight inside, or wound him.
As for our legendary knights:
Geoffroi de Charny: killed as the French formation was broken at Poitiers
Jacques de Lalaing: killed by a cannonball shot.
Bayard: killed by an arquebus.

Let's talk about Agincourt...
- Not everyone wore plate
- Most men-at-arms were defeated in melee
- A good part of them were captured (then executed)
- In a way, the strength of the longbow was forcing the enemy to attack :
"it takes but a single bush to break their ranks"

That is why we made melee support central in the game, both in attack and defense.
It also stacks with a flanking bonus when you have opponents on all sides.

Combat of the thirty: Similar set-up, but with 30v30 in Brittany:
- 4 French and 2 English down after hours of fighting
- They decided to take a break
- Then after a French squire remounted and managed to break the English formation, the battle was almost instantly over.

Montendre was an arranged 7v7 during the HYW.
- The English chose to double-team DuChatel.
- This freed Archambauldde Villar assist Karonis against the English leader, Robert de Scale, who got quickly killed by a blow to the head.
- That allowed to "roll" the remaining English.

Let's now zoom out a little, and see how fights between groups would turn out. In groups, grappling becomes much harder, unless you end up being isolated.
Medieval battles could take hours, so exhaustion was a pretty severe issue! Morale collapse was also how most battles ended.

However, grappling is more complicated to animate, so we are still looking for a good way to represent/abstract it.

So we are working on adding new alternate thrusting attacks for our 2 handed weapons, to let them thrust into the gaps of armor.

Btw, the Half Sword game made a cool attempt at bringing these armored combat techniques to life in their demo :
t.co/pfnZ5cObyJ

Here are some of the techniques showcased in the footage and their fencing treatise equivalent:

Gladiatoria - Knightly combat with poleaxe & longsword - Knight Fight in medieval armour short film YouTube video by Norwich HEMA Society

Let’s take a look at some combat footage, kindly provided with the permission of the Norwich HEMA Society.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DbR...

Actually, grappling was very important, BUT it required some setup. Our knight, Jacques de Lalaing, managed to disarm an opponent and drive him away until the referee took pity of him and stopped the duel

But I need to remind everyone that blunt weapons were NOT a magic can opener! You had to basically hit the head (or hand) with a strong blow, jam the point in a joint, or find a way to grapple your opponent to the ground with it.

So, that is what we are doing in the game:
In a way, poleaxe is the offensive choice, while sword is more defensive, and halberd works better when supported.

As for weapon selection:
Just take a poleaxe(it was the most popular weapon for knights on foot)!
Sword (the long and pointy variant) is also a reasonable choice, but you don't want to use a one hander.
Also, French knights typically used shortened lances.

Part 2: Weapons and techniques

In ZodiacLegion, we use two layers per body part, each with its own encumbrance, coverage, and armor values. Any parts can be combined, and some — like the arms — have different chances of being hit depending on whether the attack is melee or ranged.

Some games did cover armor in a detailled way already.
For instance, Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead does simulate both coverage, armor, and limb specific encumbrance.
store.steampowered.com/app/2330750/...

As for the cost, plate was not more expensive than chainmail to make, but chainmail was very common while plate was new, and it required better infrastructures to make, so it was more of an availability issue.
The cheaper alternative was brigandine.

Even though armor doesn't hamper mobility as much as in most medias, it does tire the wearer relatively fast, with an average +60% Oxygen consumption.
Knights needed to choose between having their face protected, OR seeing their surrounding and breathing comfortably.

In the game:
Margin of success = Attack roll - defender score
Then we check the body part hit
- Each part has an outer and an inner layer, which can be bypassed if margin>coverage
- we check penetration vs the armor of the active layer at this location, and calculate damage.

Armor would negate 100% of cutting damage, not 5 points or whatever. It still had weaknesses, though. Also, impacts to the head with an appropriate weapon could stun or even kill a knight.
But none of these were easy to achieve against a moving target.