∞ Monkeys

a stick figure with a sad face and the words `` the point '' written above it . ALT: a stick figure with a sad face and the words `` the point '' written above it .

Half this site rn

Yes, this is literally repeating blood libel nonsense. I'm gonna bet you will claim no Jewish kids were murdered by Palestinians on 10/7.

*defines territory

Imo, the Israelis need to make the deal & work hard to ensure conditions in the new Palestinian state improve to a degree that supporting terror attacks is viewed as harming their interests.

tl/dr- Israelis are willing to support a 2ss that includes a Palestinian State that permanently defines terrirtor & works to stop terror attacks on Israel. Palestinians are less willing to accept such an agreement.

Drilling down into the tables of this poll does show problems with how each side views a 2ss. (Columns from left to right: All PS/WB/Gaza - All IL/Jews/Arabs).

The only lesson to be taken from resolving other conflicts is that you need to establish trust on both sides. Likud & Hamas share the objective of preventing that. But, recent polling says it's possible if leaders on both sides have the will.
pcpsr.org/en/node/662

As someone who looked for polls on the 2ss well before 10/7, IL/PS public opinion was strong among both in the aftermath of the Oslo Accords & plummeted when Camp David 2000 fell apart & the 2nd Intifada began. It's risen & fallen depending on how active hostilities are since.

I'm coming into this late, but after untwisting my brain from a momentary corkscrew shape, of course Matt Bruenig is trying to make an AI labor attorney that's basically useless. 100% on brand.

I don't know you irl, but I'm 100% on the side of slapping down anyone who wants to incite violence on Jews in the US because they may or may not support Israel.

Anyone who thinks Jewish institutions of all political & non-political sorts haven't been concerned about security since forever, hasn't been paying attention. Even places/groups that aren't expressly Jewish, but have a large Jewish presence are under threat. (eg. Highland Park shooting).

It's horrible. Most of the people spewing unabashed bigotry here strike me as struggling just to go outside, but there are what I call "bring the war home" types, (eg. Elias Rodriguez) who are partly fueled by online antisemitism. That's already on top of right wingers & Islamic extremists.

I think any workable agreement will make the Temple Mount an area where neither nation has sovereignty. A multi-national custodial authority representing all 3 Abrahamic religions would preserve the site & guarantee access to all. The alternative probably ends with it being blown up, imo.

Rabin's assassination makes it clear that wasn't an obstacle only on one side. Arafat was always stuck on sovereignty over the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, (probably correctly) pointing out he didn't just have to worry about Palestinians trying to kill him if he gave it away.

I think a sufficient majority of Israelis can be convinced that fencing off ever increasing portions of the occupied territories doesn't end in lasting security, but there does need to be a credible alternative & Palestinian leaders with enough popular support to negotiate it.

The path to a resolution that doesn't end horribly has been shrunk by extremists on both sides & ignoring that fact doesn't make that path easier.

And yes, I know the 2nd Intifada was in part a response to constant brutality. But, you won't convince me South Africa would have ended apartheid earlier if the ANC were exhorting that sort of resistance, along with calls to drive whites from the land.

Majorities of Israelis & Palestinians were at least receptive to a Two State solution along the 1967 borders before the 2nd Intifada. Having hundreds of your people die in random attacks on bus stops & cafes changes your perception of what's "acceptable in the name of security".

I suspect a lot of people here are too young to remember around 1,100 Israelis (largely civilians) were killed during the 2nd Intifada in random attacks on bus stops & cafes. That will do things to your idea of what it takes to achieve security.

A lot of people are charging towards the conclusion of "there's no way Israel can ever behave like a normal nation, so it needs to be done away with" & I don't think anyone will like the outcome of a policy based on that assumption.

At least it pronounced her name correctly, which is more than can be said for a lot of media. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Really wish we would throw out these “is testing norms” headlines in favor of “is corrupt” “is incompetent” “is wasting taxpayer dollars” because last time I checked the newspapers do know how to write those headlines about stuff they don’t like

I'm reminded of how the rightoids' nonstop attacks on Lori Lightfoot wound up electing Brandon Johnson.

I think I'll regret learning what this is about.

I don't recall Bosnians promising to occupy Belgrade. That probably would've made NATO involvement quite a bit more complicated.

I assume people around him were also delusional enough to think there would be a major "rally around the flag" effect.

Mandela's South Africa makes case for potency of economic sanctions - WHYY In 1993, on the eve of black majority rule in South Africa, Time magazine asked Nelson Mandela if economic sanctions against the country helped speed the demise of its apartheid system. “Oh, there is ...

Economic pressure alone won't do it, but the current government of Israel is actively suppressing alternative paths to security. Unless that changes, I expect South Africa type sanctions are coming sooner or later. A Palestinian Mandela is impossible under current conditions
whyy.org/articles/man...

Shaalan is posting Bagdad Bob levels of pro-Iranian propaganda. People are going to be reposting tons of nonsense without knowing who posted or why. Social media is useless as a news source imo.

Post 9/11, Netanyahu probably put more political capital into making Israel an "irreplaceable partner in the Global War On Terror" than any other project. It was mostly focused on the US, but Arab nations across the region became part of a coalition with Iran on the other side.

GHWB understood having Israel involved would not have gone over well with the Arab States in 1990. Relations have changed since 9/11. This is probably testing the limits of cooperation, but the Saudis aren't going to start supporting Iran.