The Nuanced Writer

Panic and Recover is a good podcast name. Or good names for a pair of podcasts. Like Panic is the main show and Recover is the aftershow.

Oh! Or a really interesting twist on the Unpopular Opinion segment.

@matthewsanabria.dev and I set out to make a *short* aftershow for @fallthrough.fm.

It’s a massive failure, because we can’t actually stop talking so the “let’s have an extra 20 to 30 minutes of content” has become “here’s an extra hour of content”.

That’s not an aftershow. That’s just a show.

Super clamps are my new favorite rigging gear.

Also, rigging things is fun. Such a nice feeling when you tug on something and it doesn’t move even a little.

Glad you enjoyed it! It always feels like there is so much to say about versioning, and it's also so difficult to keep the conversation constrained to versioning because it tends to bleed into so many other areas of development. It's also such a nuanced thing in general.

Let’s see how rusty my After Effects skills are 🤔

What do you mean I’m down to 1 box of butter??

Need to start buying this stuff like 10 pounds at a time.

Very very wrong on which topic specifically?

There are some ways that you can make positional parameters URLs RESTful with things like URI templates, but overall they offer less flexibility than just using query parameters (and they don’t allow for the URL to be treated as opaque).

Roy Fielding wrote a blog post sort of about just using POST: roy.gbiv.com/untangled/20....

It’s largely fine to just use POST, although I’d probably put the semantics of the action within either a header or within the body, but there’s nothing wrong with putting it as a query parameter.

“Since that operation is not idempotent”, I’d probably add “nor safe” to the end there for clarity

But reading the patch, that all definitely seems accurate to me! Nice work!

For example, a service like Snapchat could be implemented as an image-per-viewer resource, and viewing the image effectively deletes the resource. Since viewing is destructive using a POST would be more appropriate (or if you want to get really interesting, DELETE).

It might be helpful (not necessarily in the beginner section) to include an example of something that is a read operation but would be appropriate for a POST request and not a GET request.

I think it might be helpful to point out that the mapping from CRUD to the HTTP methods is historical/traditional, not specifically RESTful. Doesn't have to go in-depth, but leaving the door open can help avoid future confusion.

So glad we could provide that for you! Sometimes when we record episodes it feels like we’re hanging out at the water cooler, just chatting about a topic. That was very much how it felt to record this episode.

RFC 5789: PATCH Method for HTTP Several applications extending the Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) require a feature to do partial resource modification. The existing HTTP PUT method only allows a complete replacement of a docume...

Also, it says that all of the methods other than POST are idempotent, which isn’t true: PATCH is neither safe nor idempotent (see datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc...)

I took a quick look, and I’d just note that the CRUD to POST, GET, PATCH, and DELETE isn’t necessarily wrong but it is limiting. It tends to push people toward a more rigid idea of what a resource is.

It’s perfectly fine to use POST for all of those things, or a combination of GET and POST.

Thank you so much! I try to keep my takes extra hot so definitely appreciate it. I try my best not to overcook 😅

And glad you enjoyed the episode! Thanks for listening ☺️

Furthermore in the XML case, if both platforms use a shared schema foundation like schema.org, then the shared aspects wouldn’t need to be repeated.

As an example, let’s say that Bluesky and Mastodon exposed XML namespaces for their post type.

In theory, you could expose a single XML document that encodes the post for both platforms. With JSON, it’s more difficult to do this because of things like name collisions.

JSON contains no such mechanism. You have to extend JSON in order to get these semantics, e.g. by using something like JSON-LD. Even if you use one of those formats, you still need to use a custom Content-Type header to identify it.

XML has built in namespaces and a method to describe the semantics of a document (using a DTD).

If you know the namespace or can read the DTD then you know what’s valid and what each element, attribute, etc… actually means.

Completely on brand for @steveklabnik.com and @skriptble.me to talk about REST for two hours and still have more to say.

Is there anything we didn’t cover but you wish we had? Should we talk more about how things like GraphQL are actually quite RESTful?

We finally did it! After recording an episode of @fallthrough.fm, @matthewsanabria.dev and I recorded our post show discussion (featuring @www.jvt.me!).

That’ll be shipping alongside next week’s episode, which includes the wonderful @steveklabnik.com as well!

Ah, scrolled further down in the timeline.

Glad you’re safe!

Is this about something specific or just a general vibe?

Might need to put “Codes of Misconduct” somewhere in the title. It’s literally an hour of extra content, so probably makes for a good bonus episode.

Not to mention that we also, at the end of the episode, were like “oh wait, there’s more to talk about, part two I guess!” and now I guess we’ll just have to do a part three…?

I love when we record an episode and wind up on such a long, but somehow still related, tangent that we accidentally made an entire extra episode.

Also, when you let @steveklabnik.com cook, he will, in fact, continue cooking until you stop him.

15 sourdough chocolate chip cookies, sitting on a cooling rack on a white counter.

The finished product. Sourdough chocolate chip cookies with flaky sea salt.

So far they’ve been a big hit. I mean, who doesn’t like fresh out of the oven chocolate chip cookies? 🍪