Hugo McNestry

O° F or C is way above absolute zero (c-270°C). So if you think of the warmth / energy in air as the thickness of a sheet of paper… when it’s cold it’s like rice paper and needs to be folded a few more times than when it’s warmer and like card…folding them both to get to the same temp /thickness?

Closing the spark gap will help, needs to be addressed. Nothing is as black and white as typically presented. So I get it that HPs require expertise &financing. I come at this from my experience which is a good one so far. It the country doesn’t have to buy gas it is a sovereignty enhancing move.

But if it’s a good investment then why can’t the government fund this with loans or other financing. Because as you say you need to have up front cash up to c£10k and the majority won’t have that.

About that and with about £1k pa saving on current run rate that’s c 10year payback. As its a tax free 10% it’s a good enough return. The £2k elec heaters will cost c an extra £1k prob more? pa so in the same 10 years the cash is the same or likely more? With a less comfortable living environment.

Oh! And it’s significantly cheaper. 20-30%. The noise is whisper quiet and at its loudest when everyone’s windows will be firmly shut at very cold temperatures. I’m in London and there’s quite a bit of ambient noise 24/7…

I had a number of suppliers review my 1910 semi. Eventually one worked. And, about a year in, we’re very happy with it. The even, constant, comfortable temp is a noticeable step up from gas.
It needs a smart, imaginative, knowledgeable operator. Some “rules” are overkill. But we had a DHW tank…

I would, at the drop of a hat replace Starmer if I thought it could be fast and there was a credible candidate. Perhaps one that ditched the tax promise/straight jacket and stopped making screw ups. But I just can’t see one or how it could happen.

Starmer has been massively disappointing. It is always tempting to believe that their is a perfect person installed in a swift transition getting us to where we want to be… The reality would be messy

Be careful what you push for…

When No 10 should just shut up and hear McDonald out they come out with this nonsense…

He’s certainly appears to be ignoring some crucial people in his process; his MPs, his civil servants and the domestic agenda/voters. Abdicating policy to others (the Try?) by someone whose (moral?) compass should be the guiding hand is making it like a random pogo stick in a field of cow pats..

But you make a fair point that some expertise is required. Gas has allowed plumbers to move to quasi heating engineers without much of any understanding the theory. The gas just pumps out inefficient heat. That damages the planet, lines oligarchs pockets and occasionally blows up.

We don’t know how faulty the install was (the council suggested “user training “ as a remedy), but even a gas boiler system can be screwed up. And… I have yet to hear of a heat pump explosion. I may have missed it. So while a HP system may be faulty/underperform it’s unlikely to be catastrophic?

If it was “Aberdeen Council made my life miserable by insisting I used a heating system that left me cold” then that would have been fine by me. It was lazy to seem to pin it on “heat pumps”? The article, in fairness did refer to radiators being too small and tenants not using the system properly.

You titled your post “the illusion of heat pumps” ?
The journalist failed to understand why it wasn’t working and suggested that heat pumps are supposed to be efficient and cheaper but they’re not. Had she spoken with a heating engineer she might have understood why the failure.

Reasons may include;
Design, set up, small rads, pipe sizing (I have a floor with microbore pipes that work), the wrong size pump, controls user ( it works best to be on typically all/most of the day rather than 2 hrs in the morning and say 4 hours evening). Heat pumps work but poor systems don’t.

Someone’s heating system not working (I don’t argue this) and suggesting that this is evidence that heat pumps in general don’t work is a nonsense. (I have a heat pump in a 1910 semi and it’s more comfortable heat and cheaper). It’s poor journalism.
Why isn’t it working?

It’s an incoherent argument conflating multiple issues without attempting to understand the problem or likely solutions… the fossil fuel lobby can’t handle one of the sources of the energy a heat pump uses …the free energy in the air.

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Heat pumps work. That’s just a scientific fact. And modern ones regularly beat the spark gap. >4CoP. They can heat stone churches and don’t require super insulation. (Ins. is a good thing whatever the heat source) The design and implementation has to be right and the supplier should guarantee it!

Similar to my experience. The ambient temp is the game changer for experience. So far 10 months in, the bills are c £100/month (c30%) cheaper than last year’s Ecotricity dual fuel deal now Octopus Agile. A 5 bed 1910 semi with a big single brick gable is a challenge for any system…

This is another Treasury led initiative, slipped into the plan , part of the pogo stick in a field of cow pats strategy for this government. Splat, splat, splat, winter fuel, 2 child, farmers…They will reverse it or reap the reward of another demographic that find them beyond disappointing…

Mandelson should have his golden goodbye revoked and forced to return it, with interest. As someone on benefits might be treated? He doesn’t get to be a charity donor…

But you don’t need a Huff Haus… it’s just and efficient boiler? Insulation is good regardless. And it uses the mass of the building as a battery. With actual batteries you can access better electricity prices.

Most of the big suppliers will carry surveys at no cost if they cannot offer you a solution. So you can get a survey for a few hundred pounds. Eg octopus, heat geeks, other energy companies.
If you can plumb a HP into your hot water tank that’s the main thing. Some rads replacement likely.

I’m saving about £100 a month with a 1910 semidetached house having installed a HP. And regularly getting 4plus CoP, and with variable pricing it’s possible to reduce the effective spark gap. A battery helps more.
So I believe that this report is at best misleading…

Get the HP in and do the installation, solar and batteries when it makes sense to add them. It’s just a much more efficient water heater?

Having moved from gas to a 16kwh heat pump and Octopus Agile I expect my bill to drop by 25% - 35% on my Ecotricity bill of past year… I am confused why some people need to always put it as a trade off… heat pumps or solar? Why not both…and batteries. And dump oil and gas from where we live…?

Making peoples homes a tradable investment asset is at the heart of most of this…
There will have to be a “correction” ie a drop in the (investment) value of housing in order to change things…

Plants should be protected from icy blast though!

I understand a risk of a line of terraced houses … but the pumps should be small and the noise loudest when people are behind closed doors in cold weather. In summer with no central heating need and only DHW the periodic noise is whisper quiet. Even my 16kwh just ticks over to heat the water.