0xSpencer

Hmm ya I think you’re ultimately right. Though I think for a lot of players satisfaction/fulfilment is closely tied to, and maybe even a requisite for, fun.

I appreciate your insights and for spurring the conversation! The theory of fun is always a fun topic :)

Not sure if these thoughts are out of context of your original points, and I don’t disagree with anything you said, just wanted to offer some alternative viewpoints :)

I think knowledge based games are super good about “better” equating to more fun (if you count accumulating relevant game knowledge getting better). Puzzle games like The Witness or story driven games like Outerwilds only get more fun and exciting the better you get at the game.

I think a lot of games do have a good “get better = more fun” loop, but I’ve rarely seen it in competitive games and RPGs, though the ones from those categories that do it are extremely content rich; like you said below it has to feel endless and emergent.

The fun is in working towards something, and then experiencing the result of that work, which ultimately becomes diminishing.

To me, “more fun” seems antithetical to “leveling up”, but I’m curious on your take

The reason a player grinds for a higher level is so they don’t have to grind so hard anymore (usually due to better equipment).