Liberal Harm Reduction Guy

This

Was dude locked in when it exploded? Was he trapped?

Hey man lots of people can be wrong all at the same time lololol

That being said, to each their own. I know it isn't going anywhere and I know plenty of people who find success and happiness in the rooms. I'm talking for those who don't and can't because they aren't given any other options or the options otherwise are treated like a joke by 12 step people

Which I don't believe personally, after finally getting better and then moderate use, that abysmal success rates are because "addiction is hard" or because fentanyl is a new kind of drug. I think it's because it just flat doesn't work for a majority of people. It just flat doesn't

It's why I would classify it as a cult. There's no way to have accountability to the program itself. You know the lingo, "perfect program for imperfect people". There's literally no way to change it, no way to push back on it, and hasn't meaningfully changed in 100 years while success rates suck

Part of my big thing is I just wish people were given options, and not just like "oh we can do maybe this too" but like really hammered in that that way is not the only way, and you can find success and happiness without the steps or God. That option was never realistically given to me

Bwahahahaha. I'm writing a book about my experience believe it or not. Mostly about the institutions though, not the steps. My life was dominated by these places from 16 to 27, and I think a lot did more harm than good and it needs to be talked about

Absolutely

And I can appreciate that trust me. And I wanna caveat that I had a period of abstinence over a year before I made the conscious decision to try recreational use again. And it was important that I did that, btw. My program? I call it "radical growing the fuck up". 🤷

And the fact that there's very real harm being perpetuated by these treatment centers and in recovery culture that doesn't get talked about and it needs to be. My old home group was so toxic I can't believe I didn't see it until I got out of it

I'm not here trying to claim victim, far from it. Actually, I believe it's all a choice in the end (except during active use, as we've said), and I take responsibility for my shitty behavior and failures. That was me. Not my "disease". I'm just trying to start a conversation about effectiveness

Not to mention the ostracization of people who choose to go another way. I lost my entire friend group when I decided to leave AA. And I was called a "ticking time bomb" and avoided like the plague. That's the social aspect of 12 step programs that hurts people. It's shameful.

Why does AA and the steps get a pass from being the insane choice? So returning to use after consequences is insane, but returning to steps after it not working isn't? See the logic? It makes excuses for the steps then blames the person for the program failing. That's my belief.

Because I did it so many times man lol. I went through the steps in 3 states. All different. All with a sponsor, all the way through. And in the end, I still returned to active use because I never fully believed that God did it. I don't believe in God. Existential crisis every time

Totally. There's a great documentary I can't remember the name by a doctor who breaks it down and concluded that it's not a disease but is "disease like". And I think it's an important distinction. Language matters.

And that's a problem lol.

It's really a thing here in FL. Maybe it's changing but you couldn't go to a halfway house and be on MAT when I was doing all that. They were straight up against it and demonized it in meetings. It's the culture here

Either way, good talk. I appreciate an actual debate where we're not yelling at each other from our corners. I've been railroaded on Threads before trying to talk about this, being told I wasn't a "real addict" when I most certainly fit the criteria

When I disassociated from that life, "recovery", and focused on my goals, finding people with similar interests/goals, my life got better. Not only that but it gave me my power back. How successful can you really be if your disease is "doing push ups in the parking lot"? I don't buy it

I have my weed card. I drink maybe twice a year, at most two drinks. I do psychedelic occasionally. But I know my limits, there's no "recreational" shooting meth so obviously I don't do that anymore. But by popular metrics, I'm not "sober". But to me, I'm a great success story. It's perspective

The Sober Truth. Also, and I don't like them anymore but the 13th Step and their program the "freedom model", they go into the mass marketing of AA and 12 step belief systems.

Really? Unaccountable leader? No way to question the dogma? Lack of change regardless of changing evidence, science, all that? I dunno man

I don't believe it's a forever thing and I strongly question whether that's a useful way to go about it. Talking about it forever keeps it alive to me. I haven't had problematic drug use in almost ten years, why would I keep talking about it? Then it still has power over me. See what I mean?

Obviously it ask has to be in context and taken with a grain of salt. We're talking about behaviors. Learned behaviors that over time and repetition create a habit, just like any other habit.

See that's an interesting question. What defines "success" in recovery? Full abstinence? If that's the case I've failed. But I don't believe it's the right way to measure it TBH.

See there's that word again, disease. I don't buy it anymore. It's not backed by the science and even common sense. Behavior disorder? Absolutely. But "disease"? I have an issue with that as do plenty of well regarded scientists

Read his book. Incredibly insightful

Brother, it's a racket lol. The halfway houses used to work in concert with detoxes to "recruit" patients. Dead ass, they would send in "patients" to recruit people, pay for their detox with insurance and have them bring new patients. It's disgusting

Gabor Mate' studied using modafinil in meth users with marginal success. I highly recommend his book In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts. Changed my life