Josh Thomas

Cloud Nothings The War on Drugs Japandroids Cymbals Eat Guitars Nihilistic Easyrider

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Cloud Nothings (24) The War on Drugs (6) Japandroids (5) Cymbals Eat Guitars (4) Nihilistic Easyrider (4). #myweekcounted 121 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Alvvays Beach House The Radio Dept. Cloud Nothings Shearwater

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Alvvays (16) Beach House (12) The Radio Dept. (11) Cloud Nothings (10) Shearwater (8). #myweekcounted 260 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

The Beths Alvvays Ratboys Colleen Green Momma

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: The Beths (14) Alvvays (11) Ratboys (9) Colleen Green (8) Momma (8). #myweekcounted 198 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Cloud Nothings Ben Kweller Blondshell Deep Sea Diver Great Grandpa

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Cloud Nothings (5) Ben Kweller (1) Blondshell (1) Deep Sea Diver (1) Great Grandpa (1). #myweekcounted 20 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Bon Iver Momma Japandroids The War on Drugs Cymbals Eat Guitars

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Bon Iver (14) Momma (14) Japandroids (11) The War on Drugs (8) Cymbals Eat Guitars (7). #myweekcounted 193 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Beach House Japandroids The War on Drugs Momma The National

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Beach House (18) Japandroids (17) The War on Drugs (16) Momma (13) The National (13). #myweekcounted 456 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Cymbals Eat Guitars Japandroids Wolf Parade Momma Cloud Nothings

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Cymbals Eat Guitars (33) Japandroids (21) Wolf Parade (17) Momma (14) Cloud Nothings (9). #myweekcounted 204 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Pavement Elliott Smith Momma The War on Drugs Japandroids

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Pavement (22) Elliott Smith (19) Momma (14) The War on Drugs (9) Japandroids (6). #myweekcounted 183 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

what if bad at make question?

Cloud Nothings Momma Japandroids The War on Drugs Wishy

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Cloud Nothings (27) Momma (23) Japandroids (10) The War on Drugs (10) Wishy (10). #myweekcounted 294 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Kendrick Lamar Bon Iver The War on Drugs Cloud Nothings Japandroids

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Kendrick Lamar (35) Bon Iver (29) The War on Drugs (16) Cloud Nothings (10) Japandroids (9). #myweekcounted 293 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Kendrick Lamar White Denim Bon Iver Japandroids The War on Drugs

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Kendrick Lamar (31) White Denim (13) Bon Iver (12) Japandroids (11) The War on Drugs (8). #myweekcounted 253 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Kendrick Lamar Bon Iver The War on Drugs Japandroids Cloud Nothings

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Kendrick Lamar (22) Bon Iver (15) The War on Drugs (15) Japandroids (13) Cloud Nothings (12). #myweekcounted 324 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Car Seat Headrest Momma Cloud Nothings The War on Drugs Bon Iver

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Car Seat Headrest (21) Momma (17) Cloud Nothings (15) The War on Drugs (15) Bon Iver (12). #myweekcounted 207 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Kendrick Lamar Bon Iver Cloud Nothings Japandroids Momma

♫ Top 5 artists of the Last.week: Kendrick Lamar (47) Bon Iver (42) Cloud Nothings (20) Japandroids (14) Momma (14). #myweekcounted 367 Scrobbles with Lastfm #music via @lastfm.blue

Course the other big full stack frameworks aren’t quite as old and don’t carry as much baggage, plus are led by BDFLs which has its up and downsides.

True but I don’t hold it against the 2004 mindset of the authors to much, it’s definitely of its time. I mainly have a problem around how it’s seemed frozen in time. Part of that is of course the dominance of SPAs but it kinda feels like other “full stack” frameworks have kept up quicker than Django

👍 yeah I really like django-cotton, except a handful of edges to the API that mostly boil down to personal preference

GitHub - niwinz/django-jinja: Simple and nonobstructive jinja2 integration with Django. Simple and nonobstructive jinja2 integration with Django. - niwinz/django-jinja

I got tipped earlier today to github.com/niwinz/djang... which apparently is a better library to use than the core jinja2 backend? No idea if that’s actually true but could be worth a look

Anyway, sorry for the brain dump reply. Clearly I have a lot of thoughts about templates but no clear coherent solutions 🤣 — at least not yet.

How does Django hold up with multiple engines and/or backends configured? I’ve only ever used one template engine backend at a time.

But also, as you said, any other backend besides `DjangoTemplates` is a second class citizen and an afterthought. Is this even worth pursuing?

Theoretically the template engine could support this approach, though no idea about the perf implications. Eleventy does have the benefit of running at build time being a static site generator after all.

I’ve really come to like Eleventy’s approach — you can configure it to use a half dozen or more template backends and mix and match at will, and it all just works.

I dunno what the solution is. I hate to say it, but DTL doesn’t really fit in a component based app frontend architecture. Not to say it can’t do it (I’d like to think django-bird makes it pretty easy to do, but django-components and -cotton are great too) but it’s a square peg round hole situation.

I find it so hard to grok and get lost in the syntactic soup, even if it’s doing exactly what I want. No comparison between it and any of the JS frameworks — JSX and custom web components at least resemble HTML at the end of the day.

Multiline tags as you mention, but for me, the worst is when you go all in and use DTL to the fullest extent, you end up with templates filled only with tags and variables and are let with something that is all curly braces and percents and barely resembles HTML.

That being said the ergonomics of it, in 2025, are awful IMO, especially compared with the rest of the landscape. You can accomplish so much with it but end up disliking working with it and butting up against its limitations constantly.

I have such a love/hate relationship with DTL. As someone who has spent the past 6 months pretty deep in template engine inner workings (working simultaneously on my own template tag component lib and an LSP), I’ve come to appreciate the simplicity and actually see it as an elegant solution.

Billy Wilder was presented w/ the AFI Lifetime Achievement Award #OTD in 1986.

His speech predicted the challenges moviemakers face today as accurately as a crystal ball. #FilmSky #BillyWilder

Then don't say "and LLMs are literally good for nothing". They are bad, to a first approximation! They should not have been released! They are a net negative on the world because, primarily, of capitalism! But if you know how to program-ish, they make that MUCH faster with manageable downside /