Estimating the uncertainty of sea-ice area and sea-ice extent from satellite retrievals
Abstract. The net Arctic sea-ice area (SIA) can be estimated from the sea-ice concentration (SIC) by passive microwave measurements from satellites. To be a truly useful metric, for example of the sen...
After reading the paper thoroughly, I particularly liked the section on uncertainty in sea ice estimates. I was not aware of the recent paper that estimated uncertainty using spatiotemporal correlations lengths of 300km and 5 days, although I did read some predecessor papers. doi.org/10.5194/tc-1...
08.10.2025 17:22 β π 1 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
Thanks for clarifying @climateofgavin.bsky.social & @michaelemann.bsky.social. For this particular criticism by Piekle, I suggest that a more direct response could be to point out that AIM projects the same 7.0 W/m^2 by 2100 for no policy scenarios under both SSP2 & SSP3. The above average...
03.10.2025 19:11 β π 2 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
Isn't the issue under disagreement the appropriateness of SSP3-7.0 rather than about climate science? Such as the appropriateness of the assumptions used by the AIM integrated assessment model to produce SSP3-7.0? Piekle mention population projections specifically.
03.10.2025 17:47 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 2 π 0
... sailors of potential sea ice rather than be representative of sea ice conditions, but was treated as representative in HadISST2. An upcoming community science paper on 1.5Β°C of warming, which might be submitted in the next few weeks, will discuss this issue briefly.
02.10.2025 20:10 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
A year ago, I was looking into the issue because I was curious about the reliability of HadISST2, which is used in most instrumental temperature datasets and ERA5. The presatellite Antarctic estimates are based on two atlases, one German and one Soviet. The German atlas was intended to warn...
02.10.2025 20:10 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
Among other things, I liked the attempt to use multiple historic sea ice datasets and to acknowledge differences between HadISST2 and recent reconstructions. The large decrease in Antarctic sea ice in HadISST2 is largely due to misinterpreting a Nazi-era sea ice Atlas.
02.10.2025 17:56 β π 1 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
... If one were to include sensitivity tests over all possible uniform priors for monotonic transformations of ECS (e.g., ln(ECS), sqrt(ECS), ECS^3), then the resulting uncertainty range would be excessively large. Using a single broad well-justified prior could help avoid this arbitrariness.
20.09.2025 20:49 β π 1 π 0 π¬ 0 π 0
Hi Cristi, I enjoyed reading your 2020 paper. It is true that the choice of prior wasn't a big issue in Sherwood et al. and the baseline specification did not use a problematic prior. Although the expansion of the ECS range based on prior sensitivity tests was a bit arbitrary...
20.09.2025 20:49 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure if the argument of zero probability assignments of Jeffrey's prior is of practical relevance in the case of ECS estimates. I like the cauchy prior suggestion by Annan and Hargreaves as it avoids the most problematic issues with the uniform ECS prior.
20.09.2025 17:35 β π 1 π 0 π¬ 0 π 0
I'm suggesting to not use the problematic uniform prior over ECS. This prior also has the concerning property that the ECS estimates become unboundedly large as the upper bound of the prior increases. Uniform priors over ln(ECS) or process evidence, or Jeffrey's prior, would be less problematic.
20.09.2025 17:29 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 0 π 0
I find the graph amusing as well. Although, to be fair to Lewis, since 2014 there have been changes to the underlying temperature datasets, such as infilling polar regions and high rates of warming since 2014, that would have resulted in increased ECS estimates even without methodological changes.
20.09.2025 15:52 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
I think it makes complete sense to evaluate each technical issue separately and on its merits. In the case of the criticisms of the use of a uniform prior over ECS, that is an issue where I think Lewis' arguments have merit.
20.09.2025 15:39 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
Maybe there are other issues with Lewis' methodology, but I think his criticisms of uniform ECS priors have merit. I would argue that Lewis' method isn't fancy enough and throws out information, resulting in less ability to exclude low ECS values. Time series analysis would be better.
20.09.2025 15:33 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
@kenrice.bsky.social you are correct that there are more issues than just the choice of prior that cause Lewis' results. Are there better methods? Absolutely! The simple energy balance framework throws out a lot of information and it would be better to use a time series approach.
20.09.2025 15:30 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
prior over ln(ECS). The outlier/problematic approach here is the use of a uniform prior over ECS. @kenrice.bsky.social and @andrewdessler.com perhaps you are being overreliant on intuition in this case? Lewis' suggestion to avoid overreliance on the arbitrary ECS definition seems reasonable.
19.09.2025 23:39 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 3 π 0
... distributions are often approximately multivariate normal, so would have uniform Jeffrey's priors. But the likelihood distribution for ECS is far from multivariate normal. Reasonable alternatives to using a Jeffrey's prior would be to use a uniform prior over process evidence or a uniform ...
19.09.2025 23:39 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
... prior that does not depend on this arbitrariness in the ECS definition. An approach that would be invariant to monotonic transformations of ECS would be Jeffrey's prior, which is what Lewis advocates.
The intuition of uniform priors as objective is usually reasonable since likelihood ...
19.09.2025 23:39 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
Our definition of ECS is somewhat arbitrary. An alien civilization on a different planet might use a different metric for GHGs. Even if they had the same planet, there is no reason to belive that they would use ECS compared to alternatives such as ln(ECS). Therefore, it would be better to use a ...
19.09.2025 23:39 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
Why base policy around temperature targets in the first place? Wouldn't policy based round Pigouvian taxes and estimates of the social cost of carbon be more appropriate to balance tradeoffs?
23.08.2025 01:55 β π 0 π 0 π¬ 0 π 0
Congrats. It's crazy to see so few lead authors from the U.S.
19.08.2025 14:36 β π 3 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
Chinese global temperature datasets are relatively new. There is ChinaMST developed by Sun Yat-sen university (essd.copernicus.org/articles/14/... ) and CMA-GMST developed by the Chinese Meteorological Agency (link.springer.com/article/10.1... ). Will US fall behind China due to research defunding?
15.08.2025 23:32 β π 1 π 1 π¬ 0 π 0
Thumbnail could also benefit from showing confidence intervals of uncertainty.
15.08.2025 01:12 β π 3 π 0 π¬ 0 π 0
The thumbnail image and related publication are a bit disappointing. Why only these 4 temperature datasets? There are others available (e.g., COBE-STEMP3, China-MST3, ERA5, DCENT, my datasets). For the key thumbnail of your 527 page document, you would think someone would check for other datasets...
15.08.2025 01:04 β π 1 π 0 π¬ 1 π 0
Postdoc at NYU Courant Institute π± Ocean heat, carbon, oxygen
https://www.realclimate.org is a commentary site on climate science by working climate scientists for the public and journalists. We aim to provide a quick response to developing stories and provide the context sometimes missing in mainstream commentary.
prof. climate science & policy | father | Imperial College London | 1.5C/net zero/carbon budget/pathways/justice | IPCC & UNEP lead author | ESABCC member
We are the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado Boulder. We conduct innovative research and provide open data to understand how the frozen parts of Earth affect the rest of the planet and impact society.
Labrador KallunΓ’ngajuk from VΓ’li. Dad. Hunter. Geography prof. Canada Research Chair in Northern Environmental Change.
@queensu. Views are my own.
Climate scientist with a focus on observation data and global climate monitoring
We're an independent 501c3 non-profit organization working to make climate data open and accessible.
πBerkeley, CA
οΌ www.berkeleyearth.org
π²donate.berkeleyearth.org
Climate scientist at the National Centre for Atmospheric Science, University of Reading | IPCC AR6 Lead Author | MBE | Views own | https://edhawkins.org
Warming Stripes: http://www.ShowYourStripes.info
Human | Climate Scientist | Meteorologist | Stormchaser | Queer
@unileipzig | ex-@ecioxford | @S4F | YIMBY | he/him π³οΈβππ³οΈββ§οΈπ¦ π
#bekind #diversity #equality #empathy #inclusivity #fightfascism
#WakeTheFuckUp!! #TeamJoyResistance
https://thueringen-weltoffen.de
Professor for climate physics at @ethzurich.bsky.social.
Climate scientist, director ICARUS Climate Research Centre, Maynooth University, Ireland, author IPCC AR6, member Ireland's climate change advisory council, Chair GCOS AOPC. www.peter-thorne.net
Ocean, climate, Southampton
Climate scientist, University of Exeter and Met Office. Expert Adviser to the Adaptation Committee of the Climate Change Committee. Lead author IPCC AR4, AR5 & AR6. Live music lover, supporter of grassroots venues. Cycles a lot, rock climbs occasionally.
climate science (paleo, modern, future); public understanding of science (consensus, conspiracy theories, pseudoscience)
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6951-7126
Mastodon: fediscience.org/@peterjacobs
Bird Site: https://twitter.com/past_is_future
π¬π§ πͺπΊ physicist, philosopher, lead https://www.worldweatherattribution.org/, author of Climate InJustice https://greystonebooks.com/collections/current-affairs-politics/products/climate-injustice, she/her
Interested in #scicomm, in particular about astronomy and climate change. Professor of Computational Astrophysics and Head of Institute for Astronomy, Univ. of Edinburgh. Views own, of course.
climate scientist
posts 100% my own
π¨π¦ is my home
distinguished professor & chair, Texas Tech
chief scientist, The Nature Conservancy
board member, Smithsonian NMNH
alum, UToronto and UIUC
author, Saving Us
atmospheric physicist University of Oxford @OxfordAOPP and @ECMWF | predictability of weather and climate | NCAS @AtmosScience
Climate scientist, professor of Physics of the Oceans in Potsdam. Opinions my own.